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  #1  
Old 05-22-2011, 06:46 PM
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Default rc6 editor testing

I must say I am a bit disapointed in the amount of topics on this new Beta.
Only a few commented. I know from Trausti only 4 or 5 people commented on this new beta. Helping him to get some flaws out.

Personally I think it is a HUGE improvement over the original version (when the flaws get taken out.)
For handcoders, for people not so good in hand coding IT is amazing!
your own xml editor working on the fly. you can save your xml from the editor!
a new hotspot plugin with transparancy detection.
flaws taken out the hotspot plugin. Trausti did a great job.
You can check on the fly if your plugins (from tommy) are still up to date!
To much to tell. it is great!
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:28 AM
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Thanks for kind words Freddy.

There is a lot of good things in the new editor, and it outshines anything found in other panorama creation software solutions. It makes hand coding so much easier and managing tours becomes an easy task. But if people are not interested because they want to have something they have seen in some other software... then that is how it is. 26 downloads over the past month. That does not really encourage further development, and the lack of comments apart from the few we all know... well, that just shows how "important" it is for existing users to be provided with new features. In almost the same time-frame, over 200 downloads of a new Flashificator version. Clearly the hand-coder era is coming to an end, and full GUI environment is the future. After all, there are more non-coders born every day, than there are born coders.

The bugs and errors that exist in the current version of the editor will be fixed, but based on the complete lack of interest by the community to test and report back, the focus will not be on the FPP development for now. There are other more important things to be done, and that is where the focus is now.

The editor is absolutely usable as it is now, but it does have some buggy behaviours, but nothing that prevents it from being used. Or maybe I am wrong and it can't be used for a number of reasons, but I wouldn't know, because I get no reports about such things from users.
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:56 AM
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The features of the rc6 is good but not so important for me (the new editor plug-in is very good), so i'm not interesting to test it. When will be official release i'm ready to pay for it.
I'm hand-coded user and what i want i make it now, and others things i made it with plug-ins (from the community or made by me).
I don't need FFC because i try che demo version but i prefer (and i need) the flexibility of hand-coded way.
The only thing i need it is the compatibility to iPad because about all my clients ask to me this feature, all other things is no so urgent for me and my future jobs.
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:55 AM
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Default FPP 3 ???

Hello,

me the new version does not interest me. I await the development of PPF and the opening of some of these functions in public (as FPP does not become open source). Flashicator is not for me (I hand code xml and as3).

I'm disappointed because I was expecting a version 3 of FPP since ... and still nothing.

Meanwhile I wait and then I work a bit with KrPano.

Last edited by cbc; 05-30-2011 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:48 AM
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Trausti, i don't know if the GUI version is the future.
I think that the people that working seriously in the VR world use hand code way.
And the people that use FPP in this way is the people that, for sure, can pay the right price for the job of development (like me) .
It's like company that makes videogames, the real videogames is not made with Visual Basic but with hand-coded or custom programs, but hand-coded is the only way to be competitive and make the best jobs.
So, you can think of GUI's users that can give to you little money but maybe for not for long time (because of not competitive jobs results) or you can think of hand-code users than can give you more money for, i suppose, more time (because more competitive jobs).
I think also than, often, the very professional people in the VR world, cannot spend time to test programs but them need programs that simply work.
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:33 PM
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Now here is where you go wrong guys.
I must admit I was absolutly one of you. Always handcoding because I thought it was faster.
Boy am I wrong.
Sure FFc cannot do all but what it can do it can do much faster. (if you know how.)
I am also glad Terry and Trausti gave me some private lessons to learn a little more about the program.

As a Handcoder I use the editor and coordinates plugin from Tommy a lot.

A programmaker does use tools to make life more easy.
the new Editor is an extension for us handcoders.
not flashificator at all.
The Editor works so much better as the old one. you can export your xml on the fly refresh your browser and see the results right away.
there is a xml editor (still with an annoying error) but usable.
A better hotspot plugin where old errors are taken out and new functions where introduced.


@ Pot not competitive job results?? did you see Terry his work?
like this one: http://www.regal360.com/clients/devils/index.html
Except of the share thingy on top all done in flashificator.

another one from 360twist. All done in flashificator except for the share thingy again and the preloader.
http://host.360twist.com/25degrees/
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:55 PM
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Sure, with FFC you can make complete works but you cannot make all the things i make with my jobs.
It's like building a house with Lego pieces or with custom pieces.
With Lego you can make interesting things, with custom pieces you can offer to client many features that can make really the differences, you can meet many customer requests otherwise impossible to achieve.
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:16 AM
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I know there are things not possible to do with the current version of Flashificator, which can be done through hand coding, such as adding 3rd party plugins, java script/external interface and ... well, I think that's pretty much all the difference there is, but please tell me if there are other things of importance that it can't do.

Pot. You mention that you have tried the Flashificator demo version.... You must know that the only demo version is as simple as simple can be. No hotspots, no changes, no nothing. It only enables people to do a very simple pano, without any additions.

The full version of Flashificator can do many things that hand coders can not do, offers a lot of saved time and frustrations (well, that can go both ways of course).... and there is no question about it any longer, that the world's most fantastic panorama projects, have been made with Flashificator, and not hand coding or by using KRP or P2VR or any other panorama creation software.

That is a fact, not fiction.

Several former hand-coder-only members use Flashificator for all they can, then they do their final touches with hand coding, saving themselves weeks and even months of work.

There is nothing that prevents people to do additional hand coding on FFC productions.

The new editor for FPP (RC6) is light-years ahead of what people get with KRP, and this is a fact as well.

The iDevice need people have: There are solutions available that can be used with FPP, all people need to do is a bit of hand coding, and that is something I understand is a good thing?? So why ask for something that is already available?

I had a plan involving iDevice solution for the current version of FPP, but based on the extreme lack of community interest in what we have cooked up over the past 10 months, I simply have to acknowledge that the hand coder community has left FPP, and is not interested in anything that is provided for them, so there will be nothing more done for the hand coder community on my part. I have done enough, and it has cost me time and money. There will be no more wasting time on something that won't be appreciated by the community. The editor will be finished off whenever the time becomes available, but for now there is more important work being done, for the Flashificator community and the new Flash 11 based panorama player.

The GUI community is where a developer can find funding for projects, and sure as heck not in the hand coder community. The Flashificator sales made it possible for the 10 months of FPP development... while not a single cent came in from the hand coder community during that same time to fund the ongoing development. GUI is the future of all development, while hand coding will still exist in a few dusty corners for some time. Good example of that is the fact that people (over 99.9999% of all computer users world wide) DO use graphical user interfaces for all their works, rather than using command line screens to surf the net with... reading machine code (0001 1001 1011 1000 0100 etc) .

Pot... you say that FFC can not do all the things you do with your jobs... I am not saying it is not true, but could you show us an example of your works that look/work better than FFC productions, and which could not be done with FFC alone, or where FFC could do most of the work and then finished off with an hour of hand coding?

You say that FFC can make complete works, but can not make what you do... how can you know that for sure if you have never used the full version of FFC?

In any case, with FFC you can do a LOT (some of the things you can't do with hand coding at all, even if given years to complete the work), and at the end, you can always add your own hand-coder touch to the projects. You might want to have a look at Ton Den Ouden's works... he is one of the hand coders who takes the best of both worlds, and he does it brilliantly.

The continued development for FPP hand coders has been put on ice indefinitely on this end, because there is seemingly no community as such to do things for. Over a month, 28 downloads. FFC has over 300 downloads during the same time of the latest version.

Those are the facts, and I will not waste more time and money on a development that only helps to ruin me and rob my real clients of further development that will benefit them in the best way possible.

It really would not make any difference if the 28 people who have downloaded the beta version of the editor would pay for a fully functioning non-beta version of it. That would amount to a few hundred dollars, while the development of it until now, has cost well over 20 thousand dollars. If that is not a convincing reason for people to understand my decision, they are welcome to explain how it would benefit me to continue wasting time and money on something that is not going to give back anything at all. I expect no answer on that of course, since there is no logical reason available.

People who bring up the "FPP should be open source", are welcome to download a copy of Pano Salado and do all the open source things they may ever want there. No one prevents them from that at all. That option has been there for a couple of years, yet no one picked up the project there until one guy from Poland did.

That's what Open Source is in reality. Mostly people are asking for open source because they don't want to pay anything for development, and by having Open Source, they will rely on someone else doing things for them, for free.

Nothing "wrong" in that picture for some people, but FPP is not open source. PS is.

Personally I have done a piss-poor job at promoting Flashificator correctly, always waiting for it to be mature enough so that I could make videos and examples that show how things are done, with working examples. Many hand coders really believe that FFC is no more capable than for example Pure Player... some hand coders believe it can do nothing more than what the very outdated demo version can do (I will remove the demo version after posting this message, since the demo can absolutely not be compared to what the full version of FFC can do). Beliefs of this kind are just... well... beliefs. Not based on reality or truth. There are quite a few videos available by now, showing what Flashificator can do and how it is done... still there are not enough videos showing all the different things, but I dare say that FFC can do at least 95% of what FPP handcoders can do, if we look away from the 3rd party plugins. It will do it better and in shorter time as well.

Anyone who believes that FFC is only for making simple projects, is welcome to provide their own hand coded projects for comparison, and FFC users could do their "best" to replicate the project as a proof that FFC can do the same. (disregarding external plugins)

If a hand coder manages to bring up a project that can not be done with FFC, I will gladly offer the first 3 such hand-coder projects Pano Cocoon basic certificates for unlimited use.

Pano Cocoon Basic certificate enables encryption of the project's xml file, safe-guarding valuable hand code from prying eyes

Any FFC user who would participate in this challenge and replicate a provided FPP hand coded project, proving that FFC can do the same thing, would however be the winner of said certificate.

If one hand coder provides 3 vastly different projects that can't be reproduced by any FFC user, and no other hand coder has provided projects for the challenge, that person could win home all 3 prizes, resulting in

Pano Cocoon:

Basic Certificate
xml encryption and a custom hard coded context menu with your own personal/business details. Removing the context menu from a protected project will cause the project to stop working.

Domain Lock / Local Lock License
Lock a project to a domain, can not be displayed from other domains or used locally... local lock prevents the project from being used online

Time Limit License
After a given time, a project will be "turned off" and can not be used again.

Image Encryption is not included in this contest offer.

Projects that have been made for paying clients in the past 3 years are accepted to enter this little contest, since the claims are that "FFC can not do what hand coder can"... so building something completely out of this world, only to knock FFC off it's pin, without having any real life connection, would not be fair or valid. 3rd party plugins in the projects are not a defining factor either.

Something to aim for?

I look forward to see what handcoders might turn up for this little contest.

Trausti
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Old 05-31-2011, 09:02 AM
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Hello,

First of all I find your aggressive tone towards working on this for several years without FPP Flashicator use (and yes, it exists).

I waited the new version of FPP since it was announced long ago. And when you're over the project, all the world to hope again to see a new version of FPP (no Flashicator).

FPP open source is to spend some function of "private" to "public" useful to better communicate with the engine, but you can make a version 2.4 with these changes (it should not take too long).

Although the two important functions for future client are compatible touch pad, smart phone and video 360. The multi-resolution could be a plus.

I have two engines: FPP (with whom I work) and KRPano (some test). I prefer FPP, but I'd just like we have an evolution not revolution promised.

Here are 3 links to the contest:

http://www.unejolieidee.com/projet/route_du_rock_2010/

http://unejolieidee.com/projet/panomorphing_3D/

http://unejolieidee.com/projet/les_champs_libres/

Sincerely,
Cedric Barbey.

Last edited by cbc; 05-31-2011 at 09:05 AM.
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  #10  
Old 05-31-2011, 06:12 PM
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Hi Cedric.
I've seen most of those in the past. and like it very much.
Trausti wrote.

Quote:
Projects that have been made for paying clients in the past 3 years are accepted to enter this little contest, since the claims are that "FFC can not do what hand coder can"... so building something completely out of this world, only to knock FFC off it's pin, without having any real life connection, would not be fair or valid. 3rd party plugins in the projects are not a defining factor either.[/b]
so it means not the use of other flash components .. But I must admit I love your panomorphing pano. nicely done!

Probably because English is not your native language I do not understand the first lines in your answer. but think I understand what you mean about Trausti.


I know Trausti for a long long time and we also started out with a fight (remember Trausti?? )
He is a bid bold Not very tacticle and always straight forward. That sometimes sounds hard or even agressive and a a bussinessman that is not very handy. But he's always himself. I trust him fully.
Without him, tommy scott and a few others this program would have died a long time ago as Denis had not that much interest and time for the player.



If you are so keen on a new player please tell us what you would like to see in it?
Multirez?, some other math things in the code?, like if when, set, get.
Idevice? (already possible.).
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