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  #21  
Old 06-03-2011, 12:00 AM
uudu uudu is offline
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EnochTwig

Your points are very valid. I downloaded RC6, spent a lot of time in guessing how things should work.
Asked Trausti at least twice for documentation - still waiting. Issues, I pointed, are waiting for answer already a month. Instead we got:
Quote:
the focus will not be on the FPP development for now.
New editor is nice to have, but if the development of FPP, by Traustis eyes will be a development of editor or FCC, it will be the death of it.
Handcoders are and will be always miles ahead of FCC users.
How many Tommy's and others about 50+ plugins are supported by FCC? Without them FPP is obsolete already.
How long is the list of features what can be done with FCC and not by handcoding?
I agree, FCC can make building of skin of tour easier. Terry's latest example, Trausti pointed as good example of FCC use, is still just a skin - nothing more.

Is it really time to start to study new syntax of xml? God knows how I don't like to do it.

uudu

Last edited by uudu; 06-03-2011 at 12:05 AM.
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  #22  
Old 06-03-2011, 06:57 AM
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terrycm terrycm is offline
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uudu I made a decision a long time ago to make sure and pay a visit to the website of those who offer unconstructive criticism of my own work before I get upset. 99% of the time the person who is offering up the criticism really has no room to stand when you take into account their own work. The devils thumb tour you just called a "just a skin - nothing more" Is 4065 lines of code. http://www.regal360.com/code.png .... To your credit I guess technically about 100 of those lines are used to keep that "skin" in place.

Oh I almost forgot to plug your website http://www.ormar.info

-Terry

Last edited by terrycm; 06-03-2011 at 03:41 PM. Reason: na
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  #23  
Old 06-03-2011, 08:46 AM
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Trausti Hraunfjord Trausti Hraunfjord is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uudu View Post
How long is the list of features what can be done with FCC and not by handcoding?
To say it in a different way: Weeks and months of extra time that could be used with family, friends or spend that new found time on new projects and make more income.

I know that many a hand-coder tour can take several months to do. I have been shown several examples of tours that took months to put together. Every single of those tours, would have taken a couple of days at most using Flashificator if all the graphical elements and sound/video were available at the start.

Astroman's science tour which I really like, would maybe take 6 hours to make with Flashificator (if all graphics/videos/sounds were available from the start). I am pretty sure that it did take many times more time for him to do this tour... and still it does have several bugs and errors, which is only to be expected, since it will be very difficult to keep track of everything that has been done, and to ensure that all things will work in harmony. Building complex functions that work in harmony, with Flashificator, is done with relative ease (can absolutely be improved, and that will be done as time progresses).

If time, money and creativity is not an issue, people can hand code as they want to... for nut-jobs like me, I value my time (never find enough of it), need to feed my family, and FFC helps me to make creatively complex things in an easy way, and it all comes out without errors (most of the time). When there are errors, users point them out and these get fixed. For a hand coder, it is most often a one man job to test for errors and find bugs... which is why there are often bugs and errors that will never be found. Normal users that encounter a bug/error will not be reporting their findings. Maybe they encounter a bad bug... but they may not know that it is a bug... and just move on.

That can not happen with a gui that is used by many. Things need to work, so people report their findings.

Sacha.
We have already made a new Flash 11 based engine, and it works beautifully. Web kit (html5) pano playing pales in comparison, and every existing flash based player looks and feels like an old tractor engine from the 1930's in comparison.

The world will not be the same after Flash 11 enters the scene. KRP is a good player, but it is a player without a GUI, it is not created with the framework to serve a GUI... and therefore it has no future. Photographers need cameras... nerds need code.... that's how it should be, and that is not how it is when photographers are forced to use code.

The engine we are building now, is planned for a GUI, and it's entire framework is planned for real projects, and not the kind of baby stuff we are limited to these days.... no matter how complex and advanced we might think current projects are... these are nothing compared to what the future will bring.

So thinking that it is impossible to compete with KRP development, is ... sorry... but it IS laughable. The future is unknown, but I know that it will bring a lot more than any of us can really fathom right now.

We have our own bag of planned features, and I am sure that it would take immense effort to put our plans into second place to something else. Not that it can't or won't be done, but it is very unlikely. Maybe just as unlikely as it will be for us to get it all done in good time

What am I reading Terry? You did a skin job? and you spent 74 pages of code to do it?
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  #24  
Old 06-03-2011, 01:25 PM
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Guys. is a tour not always just a skin???
and within that skin you show your tour?
Depending how you want the looks of your tour you change it.
If you want an online table reservation you build that into your skin (seen it long time ago) you can.
want video, sound, moving images, animations, chromakey, whatever you build it into your skin..

I am a handcoder but I am not stupid.
just recently i discovered the real power of flashificator and that is the recording button.
if you want to build moving objects, guided tours. you really cannot beat flashificator. it saved me a lot of hours of work!
But this topic was not about flashificator.
Whe got another forum for that.

This was about rc6 and the new hotspot plugin.
I use them for my tours now and love it. I did not find any issues for my work in the new hotspot plugin.
The Editor has a few issues but is already way better as the old one.
I have just few, very few hours to test because just like you I earn money with this stuff.


I code for others and my own company, stitch tours and others, have another job, 2 kids a lovely wife I need to give attetion, friends, and a few forums I moderate.
So every minute I save is one I can spend very well.
So you really can believe me when I say it saves time. LOTS.


work in progress done with the new rc6 and minor with flashificator.

(copy pasted code from flashificator in my own hand coded tour.)
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  #25  
Old 06-03-2011, 03:26 PM
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this was slow. 52 seconds

Beat that in hand coding. ( i cannot..)

I also have a lot of hand code work in pieces, I can copy/paste into my tour, change it a little and use in a new template.
but from scratch.. damm this is fast
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  #26  
Old 06-03-2011, 06:30 PM
EnochTwig EnochTwig is offline
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After reading a number of posts where the term 'hand-coder' is thrown around a lot, I've come to realize that it is primarily used to describe XML hand-coders...

For these people I would think that both the FPP Editor and Flashificator are valuable services, and that Trausti has made the correct decision both from a business standpoint and one of serving the virtual tour community.


Personally, I deal mostly with AS3 and dynamically created 'tours' that have to be controlled and altered from a parent flash application. I deal with XML as little as possible because (for me) it's a pointless middle-man, it's awkward, looking at it gives me the jibblies, and I'm a snob.

Obviously my perspective is a that of a small minority, but it still makes me happy to see updates on the engine and core code of the FPP itself, I just wish they were better documented.


That said, I did get a chance to throw the new hotspots.swf into one of my applications. Everything ran much smoother, and some regularly occurring errors were conspicuously absent, but the images themselves all had some very weird transparency issues (all my hotspots are PNG box objects). I will post some examples to the relevant thread when I get some time. The increased performance got me pretty excited though.
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  #27  
Old 06-04-2011, 07:14 AM
clueless clueless is offline
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Yes I agree with EnochTwig that the Editor , Hotspots and Flashificatior are just as important as the FPP engine development. I have been an xml hancoder myself and unless your a real wiz at coding,, it just takes the average "joe photographer" like me, too dam long to do the even basic xml crap.
After seeing some the recent work from Flashificator,, I am sold,, and will buy it this week for some up an coming projects.
I Apologize to you Trausti for not setting aside time to really test the new rc6 editor and hotspot.swf,, i was waiting until my next project to test them and do very much appreciate the amount of time and effort you have put into FPP development.
I read you were questioning what you thought were the most important things to focus on in FPP development since there were not to many hand coders downloading the beta rc6 and hotspots.swf.
I think, as others have said, that many wanted to see the release of the new FFP engine at the exact same time you released the beta rc6, and i certainly understand that there are just so many hours in the day with just so many resources to work with,,,, so just the fact that you have come this far is really fantastic.
I also Believe there are alot of FPP users (hand coders) like me that procrastinate, are extremely busy working, Off season, dont use the forum much, are just Lazy,,family crap,, etc ,, basically that just simply have not made any time to test them yet. In my opinion this should not be the only deterrent in what you should and should not concentrate or focus your efforts on.
There are alot of opinions in this forum, but in reality Trausti , right now you have the best VR Gui , the best Editor , killer plug-ins and a great panorama engine to work off of and improve. If possible, I really hope you see the big picture and have a really well rounded package that non-programmers, xml hand-coders, and AS3 developers can really use.
Anyway From what i have herd and seen from this forum and the flashificatior forum and (your comments) FPP does seem to have to potential of being the dominate VR Flash Player once again.
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  #28  
Old 06-04-2011, 10:00 PM
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I could not resist..
Here anther video of a template I am building..
When you understand how it works beats templatebuilding by hand by far!
Damm would have saved me so many hours from the past.
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  #29  
Old 06-05-2011, 12:02 AM
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OMG!! So much time wasted!

Cant wait to try it!!


Very Cool Video Example for Flashificator!
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  #30  
Old 06-05-2011, 01:12 AM
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Looking at the end of Terry's 4065 lines of code he posted I see links to each cube face like this:
<link url="files/visualFiles/17_u.jpg"/>
<link url="files/visualFiles/17_d.jpg"/>
<link url="files/visualFiles/17_l.jpg"/>
<link url="files/visualFiles/17_r.jpg"/>
<link url="files/visualFiles/17_f.jpg"/>
<link url="files/visualFiles/17_b.jpg"/>

What is the reason for all of these? I'm use to something short, more like this.
loadpano (panoName=files/17_u) to bring up the pano.

Does flashificator need tons more code to work and does it add a lot of useless code?
The reason that I ask, many years ago I tried FrontPage and had to remove about 25% of the useless code that it generated.

Another question,
With this new Flash 11 based engine, does that mean this is the end of FPP.
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